$ for obsidian please?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrew, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

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    Right now obsidian doesn't provide any income for miners. I would like for that to change. Talking to the mods i have determined the main reason is because "it is basically free money." In comparison to other jobs miner brings in a very small amount of income with farmer providing the most. Though it is possible to make an obsidian grinder i would say that it still is ok to have a value for obsidian simply because of the resources and time it takes to get obsidian. Without enchants mining obsidian takes forever which fixes the issue with time and if that isn't enough it requires one redstone for each obsidian and a diamond pickaxe just to collect it. So collecting obsidian is a time consuming task that uses tons of resources and has very little benefit. For instance non stop mining on an obsidian grinder with obsidian at 5coins per block provides about 383 (not including time it takes to reset the grinder.) that would equate to 1915 coins per hour. a rough estimate puts farming at around 3k per hour for nonstop farming. This proves that obsidian grinders only allow you to "farm" obsidian for even less profit than a farmer who uses virtually no resources to collect their crop. (Farmers get money from placing and breaking crops and miners only get money from breaking blocks. meaning it is even harder to get money.) In effort to balance them all i would suggest adding a monetary value for mining obsidian.

    Pros and cons of adding a value to obsidian-
    Pros: Miner isn't a weak job.
    Cons: nothing.

    pros and cons of leaving it how it is-
    Pros: nothing
    Cons: Miners can't gain any income off of the hardest to mine block in the entire game.
  2. xhair

    xhair Member Moderator

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    If obsidian were to give money to miners it would have to be a very small amount. I do agree with you that miner is weaker than farmer, but I don't think the solution is to give obsidian a value of 5 coins (or any other decent value). The current logic on miner is that it will begin to be more profitable once merchants begin to buy ores and rare resources. I personally think that miners and most other jobs just need a buff in general.
  3. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

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    Well then remove the $50 a day on merchants to just own a store... its impossible for the econ system to work if everything is under powered. No one wants to be a merchant because of how unstable it is. Also what is wrong with allowing a miner to make minimal profit off of an incredibly boring and slow task?
  4. Favith

    Favith New Member

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    I already pointed out in the "Professions" thread the fault in this line of reasoning (not arguing with you, xhair, just restating my thoughts here in case people didn't see the other debate).

    1) Everyone can mine ores, not just miner. Even Merchants themselves make money from the act of mining. One profession's ability to make money at a decent rate shouldn't depend on selling the fruits of their labor. This is especially true when there are professions out there (namely farming, of course) that make very nice money just from the act of doing their chosen job (ie, planting and breaking crops).
    2) If we're waiting for the player-run economy to take off in order to make certain professions valid then we're doing a HUGE disservice to anyone who isn't playing as a farmer. Seems more than a bit unfair that the dev team would ask some players to languish behind in the money race until the others get rich enough to want to buy your stuff.
    3) I had no idea about the $50 a day store fee for merchants. That's nuts. $50 a day at the rate a merchant can earn money (from doing tasks he gets paid for, not from selling to someone) is quite a bit. That fee is yet another weight keeping this economy from taking off.

    Like xhair, I believe that every profession needs to be brought up a bit rather than bringing farmer down. I know the dev staff is already looking at this issue--just wanted an excuse to use the forums more. ;)
  5. xhair

    xhair Member Moderator

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    Yeah i just dont think obsidian is the way to go andrew, just an overall buff is better. Unfortunately, I've already argued for the buff and it seems as if the admins are leaning towards the nerf on farmer.
  6. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

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    I personally use obsidian a lot and wish i could get some form of income for all the hard work i do mining it.
  7. RedWidow

    RedWidow Member Administrator

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    The reason that we do not give money for mining obsidian is because it is not a naturally occurring ore within the game. How do you get obisidan? You create it by pouring water over lava. Now in the overworld I can see that there is a limit to the amount of lava source blocks that one can make obsidian out of but there is an untapped nether that is predominantly lava. I also know that mojang removed the ability to have water in the nether so no melting ice etc. but there is nothing stopping you from carting a nearly unlimited amount of lava out of the nether to create the obsidian. Miners will just have to make do without getting paid for this created ore. We don't pay people for crafting, you get paid for mining. Obsidian is essentially a crafted ore. If we started paying people for crafting then we'd have to pay the farmer that makes bread, every player that crafts armor and weapons from their ore etc. and the list could go on and on.
  8. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

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    So red i see where you're coming from however i believe you're slightly misguided on how obsidian can be made. It doesn't use up lava to create it uses up redstone and diamond pickaxes. Also its not being crafted it is being farmed, meaning you don't have to pay people for crafting items. You don't need a crafting table to make obsidian you do however need diamond pickaxes and redstone. Statistics show that at 5coins per block of obsidian miner is still a over all weaker job then farmer therefore it does not break the job only make it more even. (also its not an ore as you cannot smelt it.) Miner also cannot just sit indefinitely on an obsidian grinder to make money, they have to go and mine the resources they need to create and mine obsidian. In no way does payment for obsidian break miner or create an unfair advantage over other jobs, instead it begins to balance (or shrink the income gap.) Where as a nerf on farmer is a good idea a buff on others is still necessary. The monetary difference between farmer and miner would be somewhere around 1500 to 2000 coins per hour of collecting. So even if you bring farmers income down by 1000 coins miner still needs to be brought up by at least 500 coins to 1000 coins per hour. So i would say nerf farmer and buff the other jobs. (obby would be a good way of buffing miner.)
  9. RedWidow

    RedWidow Member Administrator

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    Okay I didn't even need to finish this whole post because you are still avoiding the issue (but I did finish it). It is a crafted block, I don't care if you use redstone or water whatever method you are making it. It does not occur naturally in the wild unless a specific set of circumstances occur (i.e. water meets lava). Mining has an inherent risk involved, you can fall in lava, you encounter mobs in the caves, etc. If you are sitting in your base with an obsidian generator you are incurring little to no risk. Obsidian is not going to become one of the blocks that miner gets paid for. As for the not being an ore because you don't smelt it. Well then I guess diamond isn't either or coal, lapis and redstone for that matter as all of them are broken and come out in the useable form and require no smelting. We realize that the jobs situation needs addressing and the fact still remains that mining is a pretty lucrative job, if players become merchants and start buying ores. When that time comes you will see miners make much more than they are currently.
  10. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

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    Ok you mention risk factor. What risks are farmers taking in a perfectly lit farm? do tell... So yes you are correct other ores are not smelted, however the way it is generated naturally does distinguish it from other ores, you also cant create ores they are finite. You all keep saying "miners can sell the ores they collect" but that's just not happening. ores go into community ores chests and are used for the good of the town that's what most towns do. Also why must they sell ores they collect. Selling isn't in their job description like it is in merchant. How are you going to make sure that the merchants aren't stiffing the miners? What safeguards are there against miners handing over the ores and not getting payed, merchant has protections for chest shop what does miner have? I sure as hell don't want to sell to someone with out absolute 100% guarantee I won't be stiffed. And don't try and tell me that that is ok, you are literally forcing a job to do what another job is designed to do just to make even with the same pay as farmer. (The server is going to die if something isn't fixed and its obvious you all aren't invested enough in what other people say to actually fix the real issues at hand.)
  11. giantlobstah

    giantlobstah New Member

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    This just needs to be dropped really.. Obsidian giving you money is ridiculous. Just buff all the jobs besides farmer.

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